Creating Exhibits at Deposition for Use at Trial
How can deposition exhibits help strengthen a nursing home case at trial? The right exhibits can help attorneys organize evidence, highlight important facts, and present a compelling case to a jury. In this week’s episode, nursing home abuse lawyer Rob Schenk welcomes Dustin Herman and Nicholas DiCello to discuss creating exhibits at deposition for use at trial.
Intro
Schenk:
A good deposition transcript can win a motion, but a good deposition exhibit can win over a jury. I’m attorney Rob Schenk. This is the Justice for Residents podcast, and this week I’m joined by Dustin Herman and Nick DiCello, two of the nation’s leading trial lawyers, to talk about having a deponent help create exhibits during the deposition, and then using those exhibits at trial for maximum impact.
We’ll cover how to plan it, how to execute it, who holds the pen, where to put it in trial, and how to handle objections when the witness realizes they’re accidentally making demonstrative evidence that hurts them. Stick around.
Oh, I like that little… I think, what is that, Gene? Gene is saying that it’s trap funk. That was what that jingle was, trap funk. I’m, I know what funk is. I think I’m fairly familiar with trap, ’cause there was that famous trap house in Atlanta, right? But then they finally bulldozed it a few years ago.
Am I wrong about that? Was it pink? Am I going crazy? Or is that John Cougar Mellencamp had the pink house? Damn, I’m really old now. Anyway, okay. I digress. This week, fantastic conversation with two amazing trial lawyers about creating, having a deponent create depos- exhibits at a deposition. But if you want homework, ’cause I feel like now with this podcast, I am racking up episode after episode on depositions because I love depositions.
And so few cases go to trial, depositions are where you’re really able to hone skills. So that’s one of the main reasons why I like to put a lot of time in these episodes on depositions. But anyway, if you want homework about depositions, go back to episodes 222, which is, we talked to Kate Hughes, fantastic nursing home lawyer in Georgia, about deposition strategies in nursing home cases.
Order of deponents, what to ask a CNA versus an RN, et cetera. And then in episodes 224 and 305 are both with Roger Dodd, and I highly suggest that you go back and listen to those. He advocates for cross-examination during depositions. So to prepare your deposition as though it is a cross-examination at a trial, so you got all your exhibits, everything is ready boom.
Guest Intro
Schenk:
And he talks about the pros and very little of the cons in doing that. And again, that’s episode 224 and 305. And now for the steak frites and steak of the episode. Dustin Herman and Nick DiCello, partners at Spangerberg Shibley & Lieber, and are two of the nation’s leading trial attorneys. Sorry about that.
This is I’m having a hard time reading it. Dustin focuses on medical malpractice, nursing home, catastrophic injury, and product liability litigation, and has secured numerous multi-million dollar verdicts, including a recent $17.7 million nursing home case, which is, we’ll talk about that exhibit today.
Nick concentrates on medical malpractice, civil rights, and personal injury litigation, obtaining multiple eight-figure settlements and verdicts throughout his career. Today, they bring decades of trial experience, national recognition, and a proven track record of securing justice for victims and their families, and I’m super excited to have them on the show today.
How Do You Approach Exhibits at Deposition?
Schenk:
I wanna start broadly first, and I wanna just talk about with respect to literally making an exhibit at a deposition with a deponent, is this something that is spontaneous or is this something that you’ve thought of in advance of the deposition?
Herman:
Okay. It’s both. I spend a lot of time practicing at home on these exhibits and making sure that everything that I wanna write on the page fits on the page, I don’t run off knowing how to spell everything, exactly where I want it.
And in, both Nick and I do this, and it takes a lot of preparation to create these boards before a deposition. This particular board that you’re showing or gonna show that was actually on the fly And that was, we were going through documents that had not been produced previously.
They were bathing records. There was 110 pages of bathing records, and I wanted to get some admissions from a corporate representative, and the best way to do that, it took about 45 minutes to make this board, and I went through 110 pages of the nursing aide records, showing her, proving to her the exact amount of baths that were in the records, and then we wrote as we went through and confirmed it all so she could see it with her own eyes, and then I could get the admission that this is how many there were, and then at the end of making that board, I said, “Look, this is all a fair and accurate depiction of, and a summary of the records for Jeanene Roberson,” and she says, “Yes,” and we mark it as an exhibit, and this particular exhibit actually we introduced into, in at trial, and it actually was admitted into evidence without objection at trial.
Attorneys developing evidence for trial can learn more about the effective use of demonstrative evidence in the courtroom to make complex facts easier for jurors to understand.
Why Are Witness-Created Exhibits More Powerful Than Computer-Generated Exhibits?
Schenk:
Let me ask it, let me ask like this. So w- why do you, why do you- choose, and I understand this particular exhibit we’re gonna, we’re gonna look at is, was spontaneous. But when in your mind, when you’re thinking about having a, a, a exhibit created by the deponent, in your mind is this, I’m gonna use this in opening, I’m gonna use this for another witness down the road, I’m gonna establish a fact?
In your mind, why are you doing it? And then the second kind of to tee off on that is why, what’s the difference to you between the deponent doing it and you just creating it in a Microsoft Word document and having the person affirm it?
Herman:
It’s… I’ll answer the second question first. It’s so much more powerful when we create it with the witness, and the witness pretty much takes ownership of it, and it’s a lot about controlling the witness.
And so when you walk through with something and write it out in front of the witness, and the witness has seen it and say, “Look, this is, we agree. This is what the records show. This is what we agree with you say.” We use it later then for a number of options at trial. And so with this particular witness, when I deposed her, we went through it.
And then at trial, I’m not gonna take obviously 30, 45 minutes to make this kind of exhibit live in front of the jury. So sometimes when we do something in deposition, we do recreate it live in front of the jury. If it takes any amount of time, we don’t recreate it live in front of the jury. So I pulled this out and showed it to her and said, “Hey, this was exhibit 12 during your deposition, and we created this together and we’re gonna show it to the jury.”
And she said, “Yeah, we did create this together.” Now let’s talk about, let’s show the jury how you and I created this exhibit together, and went through one or two medical records, and they lined up and they said, “Okay, now this is a, a summary of the voluminous records here, and this is all fair and accurate, right?”
And the jury says yes. Okay. Then let’s walk through it. And so the witness, So that’s a big, that’s a big deal is controlling the witness and getting the witness to buy into it. We’ve done this a, a, a number of times with witnesses and when they, when you create it in front of them, they take ownership and they can’t wiggle out and change their answer.
Visual presentation can strengthen a case, and lawyers can review practical guidance on using demonstrative evidence to tell and show the case at trial.
When we are creating these in deposition, Nick and I probably created 100 handwritten exhibits that were… Some were previously typed out, but then we used yes/no boards, yes/no questions, multiple choice questions. Just there were boards, so we can show you some of these these other ones on the time that the staff was supposed to call the family, and we had 15 different times every 15 minutes or every half hour up there, and we had, had Nick had them circle one.
And so we’re creating all these to be used. We don’t know exactly. We showed some of them in the opening statement and Nick, when Nick gave the opening we showed some of these boards in the opening. There were multiple choice questions about the cause of death. What is the cause of death? A, infection, B, sepsis, C, other, or D, unknown.
And the death certificate said it was infection and sepsis, and both of their experts circled C, other. And then they had some other written explanation. And so when Nick did the opening, he showed these boards and said, “You’re gonna hear from the defense experts. They disagree with the death certificate.”
So that’s one way to use them in the opening. And then we use them throughout the trial either on cross-examination with this corporate representative or with the defense experts. Sometimes we’ll recreate the exhibit and almost use it like an impeachment thing. When we know we’ve created it first in depo and they’ve signed off on it, we’ll recreate it again live at trial.
Or just pull out the, the board and say, “Hey, this was a demonstrative exhibit we used during your in, in your Deposition, and you agree to the following. And Nick did that beautifully and for a number of times with their expert.
Trial attorneys can explore additional strategies for presenting evidence effectively to judges and juries when preparing a case for the courtroom.
Are You Making the Deponent Do Any Work (i.e., Signing an Exhibit, Filling It Out, etc.)?
Schenk:
So Nick, like logistically, walk me through this. When you, and we’ll use again this particular exhibit that we’re gonna talk about, where essentially you’re summarizing records, for example.
I know that we have the yes/no boards, et cetera, but let’s talk about an exhibit like this. Is it gonna be you, Nick, that’s writing it out, or are you directing “Okay, Ms. Jane or Ms. Deponent, write this,” and, et cetera? Like walk me through how you’re typically gonna do it in terms of who’s writing, who has the pen, et cetera.
DiCello:
Yeah. Generally speaking, we wanna control the pen. We wanna control the colors, and the colors are critically important. So we will ask the deponent, the witness questions, and then we will write the answers. But it’s important to get, you agree with what we just wrote, and then oftentimes we’ll, “Can I put your name down here and a date that you agree that this is an accurate representation?”
And a couple things I’ll add to what Dustin said about why we think these are so powerful is if you notice we always or try to put the photograph of the deponent up on the sc- the exhibit. We always try to put the symbol of the nursing home or describe who the deponent is. We’ll just write up there and folks don’t object.
We’ll write up there, hired witness by the nursing home.
And, if you did that in a deposition, some people might say that’s not how I’m an expert. Refer to me as an expert.” However it is. So you can just kind of cabin who the person is on that form, who they represent, what they’re all about, without even having to ask any questions, and then the information under it is, are things that they endorse.
So we do keep control of the pen. I think that’s important. And the difference between making something on your computer, we do that. We make things that we’ll then show at trial, of course. But we have found that juries really react well to these very simple… We made them all together. I would say when you do it at deposition, the lawyers are a little less, they scrutinize it a little less carefully than you do when you show up to trial with a demonstrative and they say Judge, I have to see this, and I disagree with this, that, or the other.” But when we did it two months ago and they thought this case was gonna settle and they hadn’t really prepared the witness, and now we’ve created this really good-looking demonstrative that communicates our case pretty strongly, and they didn’t have a chance to preview it and object to the final product because we created it live It really is difficult for them to challenge it later at trial when the witness says, “No, I agree with everything on here.”
What Are Common Objections To This?
Schenk:
That was gonna be my question, Nick, is that at least when I’ve done this in the past, I get “We’re not creating objections,” or, “We’re not creating exhibits today. I’m not blah, blah, blah.” And they eventually concede, that they need to do this. But what are some of the more common objections you’re getting, and do you ever have such strong fightback that you have to suspend a depo?
Does that ever happen to you when you do this kind of thing?
DiCello:
No, and so what we do is we’re one, you gotta be, you gotta be fair, right? If we’re gonna do a multiple choice, sometimes somebody’ll say “I don’t think any of those are appropriate.” And so we’ll put in, “Okay let’s put in D, and we’ll leave a blank line, what would you put in here?”
And sometimes, it makes the whole exhibit go away and we don’t use it, and sometimes they offer something that’s even better than what we thought up. But the act of actually writing it down, when you watch the witness’s reaction, they almost stop trying to figure out what they’re supposed to be saying, what’s their theme, what did they talk about in prep, what are they gonna go back to their canned answers, and they start f- following along with you, and they recognize that everything we’re doing on the, on this page in front of everybody is totally reasonable and accurate.
And if they’re gonna take the opportunity to deny it all written out right in front of them, it’s a lot more powerful than it was, than it would just be look at all these words in the deposition transcript. Us lawyers, we look at those depo transcripts and we pat each other on the back and say, “Wow, we killed this person.”
Jurors, sometimes you can put up the written word and get a great impeachment, and it can be effective, but for the most part, the jurors wanna see something that is communicating it to them without just the basic “You said this then, and now you’re saying this now.” It’s a much more dynamic way to control or impeach a witness or a defendant’s, theory of the case.
Question of the Week
Schenk:
All right, I hate to interrupt, but it’s time for the Nursing Home Regulation Question of the Week. This week, folks, I’m gonna say it’s medium-hard. So if you get this right, then for you, for the rest of the day, upgrade. Upgrade is the operative word. So if you’re going to McDonald’s for lunch, no, now you’re going to Five Guys.
You’re drinking coffee, you’re getting the extra premium ridiculous thing from Starbucks, okay? You’re at the gas station, you can spring for the 92 octane. You don’t have to get the 87, okay? Upgrade, if you get it right.
Under 42 CFR 483.55[3], how long after a resident’s dentures are lost or stolen must the nursing home refer the resident for dental services? Is it A, one day, B, three days, or C, one week?
And that answer, surprisingly, is three days. If the resident’s dentures are lost or stolen, the nursing home has three days to refer that resident to dental service care
What If You Later Don’t Like the Exhibit? Are You Locked In?
Schenk:
In a typical deposition, and we’ll just keep this fact witnesses, not necessarily expert witnesses, but fact witnesses. Are… Is the name of the game we’re gonna create five five exhibits? Are you… I guess the question is, and my questions are terrible, are you typically going in with a certain number of ideas for exhibits that you will be creating in that deposition? Is it normally one? Is it 15? Is it… Or can you ballpark or does it depend?
DiCello:
Yeah I’ll address this and turn it over to Dustin, ’cause I’ll say Dustin is the one who’s convinced me that this is an appropriate method and strategy to use, and I’m committed to using it as well. And I will say it is something you can overdo.
You don’t wanna be up there the whole trial or the whole deposition creating these things. And we’ve recognized that sometimes it can be a little too much. So like anything in trial work, make sure there’s a reason for doing it. Sometimes we do it, we realize it didn’t work, and we toss it, and it’s not a big deal.
So I would say in any given deposition, there might be, a handful that we’ve pre-prepared that we think this should work. And then in any given deposition, there might be a couple that you just create on the fly. So a lot of things in trial work, you gotta feel your way through it.
I still take depositions where I don’t create any of these ’cause there’s just not the need to. But … dustin can probably address his approach as well.
Complex testimony and evidence can be made easier to understand through the effective use of trial demonstratives.
Herman:
Yeah, when I’m preparing for the depo I’m thinking about what we call this like building bricks. That, so each one of these is like a brick that we potentially could use at trial in some way.
Most of them we throw out. Most of the ones we create in depos we don’t even use. So I’m not really worried about it locked in, is this the best thing? We just, and a lot of it’s just we’re having fun with certain questions and to get a response out of the witness. But so we’ll come in, five, 10 maybe.
I’m sitting here going, what are some solid admissions that we could get from this witness? What are ways to polarize the witness? And that, that’s really I, we like especially, I know you said facts, but if with experts and with the defendant’s witnesses, if we can get them to agree to a ridiculous position on paper in a multiple choice question or a true and false question or a yes or no question, that’s a success.
And so we’ll have a number of these set up where we just walk them through, and every question is designed to be eminently reasonable. They’re not really gotcha questions. We want to make sure that we’re giving the witness a fair opportunity to explain. We do this both in depos and at trial.
Attorneys preparing exhibits can review best practices for introducing and using exhibits during trial to improve clarity and presentation.
Certainly in front of the jury we are eminently reasonable. Anything the witness wants us to write down if we’re saying we’re gonna write their answer down, we will write their answer down. But we have to be fair to the witness in front of the jury. But then we will we’ll, I’ll, we’ll have these boards, and we call them like the blank ones boards.
And we’ll have the witness’s name and picture at the top and the corporate logo, and w- I’ll just have 10 other than that just blank boards, and because when we, when it just comes up live, we’ll be like, “Okay, let me write this down.” And we c- I can actually show you some examples to the extent that you want.
We’ve got some footage from depositions of Nick doing some of this stuff, of me doing some of this stuff.
Medical documentation often becomes critical evidence, so families should understand how to get medical records after a Georgia nursing home injury.
How Do You Create an Exhibit From Newly Produced Records During a Deposition?
Schenk:
Let me, let’s, let, that’s a good segue, Dustin. Let me share my screen, and let’s talk about the one that brought you guys to my attention for this show. So this is, I gotta share my Adobe Acrobat So this is the example that we’ve been referring to the entire episode.
And again, for everybody out there, as Dustin and Nick have described this there’s more than one way to skin a cat. It just so happens that this was a spontaneous exhibit created at a particular deposition. But as they’ve been describing, you can do whatever. You can have a series of five questions with yes or no, et cetera.
But I loved this particular exhibit. This is a, a nursing home, essentially, podcast, so this speaks to me more than maybe other things. So Dustin, just if you can, just briefly walk me through. You’re sitting at the deposition. You’ve been handed a bunch of documents you haven’t seen before.
I’m assuming they’re ADL records.
Herman:
It’s a document survey report from Point Click Care.
Schenk:
Okay. Fair enough. Now it’s like, “Oh, dang, let me get one of these blank boards.” Take it from there. What happens next?
Herman:
Yeah. I had 10 of these blank boards with just the name and the logo just in case I need it.
And so I’m walking through the bathing records, and I realized that I’m not gonna be able to get her to give me admission unless we go through all the records together. And so I pull it out. Let’s track it as we go. Show the records, show the documentation survey report for January 2023.
Okay. We both agree there were only two baths in January. Yes. Come here. Write January 2023, two baths. Two different colors, ’cause I know in my mind what I’m about to create, and so we’re separating things by colors just for the eye, ’cause I know in the end the, the viewer is gonna it really helps with the visualization.
And I know the amount of baths that she had total, and I know I’m gonna come at the end and summarize it with this red Sharpie, and I know that when I show this to an audience at trial, the first thing they’re gonna see and go to is the red letters. That’s just, your audience probably, when you put this up there, they read the red letters first.
Before litigation begins, families may want to understand who investigates a nursing home abuse case and what evidence may be gathered.
But so I walk through January 2023. Okay, let’s go to December. Go through every page. We agree there are five baths. Yes, five. November, and keep going through, and I’m proving it to the witness. She doesn’t have to take my word for it. She sees it with her own eyes. Okay, this was there. Then, okay, so now during this timeframe the the summary is it’s 28 to 35 baths ’cause she, she fudged on down at the bottom there in March, February, January on there were some notes that it might’ve been a bath, maybe the family gave her a bath.
Fine. Okay.
Recognizing the signs of nursing home abuse can help families identify important evidence of mistreatment.
How Do You Establish That a Deposition Exhibit Is Fair and Accurate?
Schenk:
And did you start, and did you go top to bottom? ‘Cause I mean- Top to bottom … it, ’cause, yeah, ’cause she, definitely she’s starting to, she’s starting in her mind to realize that she’s not getting to 104 baths. So yeah. Okay.
Herman:
So I started on a blank sheet, January ’23 at the top, and two baths were the first thing.
I went all the way down the left side with the dates and baths, then the red. Then at the end I’m like, “And she got 28 to 35, right? And her order,” and I’d show her the order, she’s supposed to get two baths per week, so that’s 104 baths per year, right? And now I write that in. And I say then, “All right, this is Exhibit 16.
Have I fairly and accurately captured the information in the records in your testimony today in Exhibit 16?” Yes, I have. That is the soundbite that we’re looking for in the transcript. For a trial, we can then show that to the judge, either motion for summary judgment, whatever it is, if we want to use this exhibit.
Judge, she’s, when we got a nice soundbite. She said this is, Exhibit 16 is fair and accurate. And then, and once judges see that, they’re, that’s enough for them.
Behavioral changes, injuries, and poor care may be warning signs, so families should know how to tell if a loved one is being neglected or abused.
Schenk:
That’s enough. And and let me be clear because this is confusing to me. What I understand you to say is that when you’re talking about getting a blank board, you already have the, her picture and her name and the logo on it.
It’s not like you, it’s not though, it’s not coming in after. So she sees her own picture when you’re writing this. Okay. How do you get her picture?
Herman:
LinkedIn, Google
Schenk:
Okay. Do you ever have any pushback with y- this is a bad picture or anything like that?
Herman:
I have, and I’ve gotten I, and so we try to have good pictures.
Th- this is, it was, I think that’s maybe her LinkedIn picture. I can’t remember- she can’t argue with that then … where I got it. Yeah. Yeah. So I’ve done it in a trial and the defense lawyer rightly criticized me ’cause I took a picture of the defendant sitting in trial and then we put it on the board.
And it was not a flattering picture of the defendant. And she in front of the jury said, “I don’t know who took this picture,” but, it was low grade to have this bad picture. And I was like, I, in front of the jury I said, “I, that was me that took the picture. You’re right, I could have taken a better picture.”
So we don’t mess with that anymore. That’s we’re not gonna we’re gonna give good pictures of the witnesses and not make them look bad to the extent we can.
Evidence presented during litigation can also affect compensation, making it important to understand what damages may be recovered in a nursing home abuse case.
Schenk:
Okay. So again, this would be, is it a a poster board, whiteboard, or is it a piece, literally a piece of paper with this printed on here?
Herman:
Literally a piece of paper. Okay. So we use ledger paper
Herman:
That is 11 by 17. So it’s essentially two sheets of paper next to each other. But that’s, so we use, and we’re doing this all under the IP. I don’t know if your viewers can see me Yep … at all during this. Yep. But this document camera, and when the document camera is at full it’s all the way you can capture that full 11 by 17 board piece of paper under the document camera.
And so that’s the best way to do it because you have more to write on. You can write neater if you’ve got a bigger piece of paper. So 11 by 17 is what we use. I’ve, we have used some thicker cardstock paper but sometimes the Sharpies don’t write as well on them. And so- Just pieces of paper, and then we scan it and send it to the the court reporter, and it’s part of the exhibits.
And I’ve never gotten pushback for, sending these exhibits to the court reporters after the fact.
Attorneys preparing testimony can explore practical approaches in Deposition Strategies in Nursing Home Cases.
Schenk:
And and this is for either one of you, but I guess for me this could just be ridiculous, but I feel like I have to get their signature. I don’t see a signature on this, but I guess from what I understand you to say, as long as you get on the record that this is a true and accurate representation of what we’ve discussed, the summary, you don’t need it, you don’t need it.
It would only be for the perhaps the visual for the jury to see, okay, she did sign it. This is not something that a jerk lawyer made, right?
Herman:
Yeah, so I never get their signature ’cause I don’t wanna give them that control, especially the defense lawyer. She’s not signing anything.
Okay? I don’t care.
What I have done on many of these is I’ll write, do you… i’ll make a list for Sepsis … and these are risk factors for sepsis. Okay, let’s make a list together of the risk factors for sepsis “Is this a good list?” “Yeah, it’s a good list.” And then I’ll just write myself, “Dr. Says this is a good list,” and so it endorses it, and then you say, “This is fair and accurate.”
And then in that situation I went off and I, with a red pen, checked off every risk factor that our patient had. So I don’t mess with and Nick doesn’t either, mess with getting the witness to sign it ’cause that, we stay in control of the board.
Effective questioning techniques are discussed in Cross-Examination Strategies for Depositions.
Schenk:
But I guess in final summation the critical key in what you both described is that whatever you do, it has to be a fair representation.
You can’t, you’re not gonna get the person to agree, “You killed the person,” and then it’s, “Oh, it’s handwritten. He agreed that I…” No it’s, everything is it’s even keel and they agree to it. So I think that’s a great idea. Gentlemen, like I said, I told y’all off-camera before we started the show, this is one of my, this is one of the show this season that I’ve been really looking forward to, and I really appreciate it.
I myself learned a lot. I don’t do enough of this in my depositions, and now this is the, the, the push that I need to really start doing this. I’ve played with it in a few cases, but now I’m really gonna start doing it because, and I’ll have a link in the show notes to everybody, but as we mentioned, this was in a case that Nick and Dustin tried, and it was a powerful exhibit in opening that, that showed that this, this poor woman was not treated well.
And to me, this is such a powerful exhibit to show that. But anyway I digress.
DiCello:
Rob, can I just make a, a couple of subtle statements that Dustin didn’t make? Sure. On, on that exhibit we actually had and we all deal with the corporate shell game when we’re litigating against these nursing homes.
When we went to verdict in that case, we actually made a strategic decision before we went to jury instructions to dismiss the corporate parent, which in this case was CCH Healthcare. But here we still have this exhibit where CCH Healthcare, the big giant corporation, is still in the mind of the jury.
And a couple subtle things you don’t notice here, but your brain does, what is immediately underneath the CCH Healthcare? The most damning information we have. So when you’re looking at it, what do you see? CCH Healthcare bathed this woman 28 to 35 baths. Not the poor LPN who got on the stand, not the family members who were asked were you there?
Did you bathe her?” No. This information is immediately below what? CCH Healthcare doesn’t bathe people. It’s right there in front of you. You can’t lose the fact of how powerful that is, just visually and spatially. Finally, I would say this did go back to the jury, and we had a bill of rights claim for lack of dignity, including our claim that she was not bathed enough times.
We have caps in Ohio, but you get a new cap for each occurrence, and we got on the jury instructions Judge, we have to ask them how many times this, violation of her dignity occurred.” And this board helped us articulate that, and we believe they used this board. You see the blue 104? You see the 28 to 35?
This jury actually used those numbers and calculated the number of times this woman’s dignity, right to dignity, was violated under that claim based on this board and this summary for them, and said something like whatever the math was they came up with. And if we had gone to the Court of Appeals on a caps issue, we would have had it right there in the record, this exhibit, and the jury’s verdict following this evidence that this, this violation occurred 70-some times, whatever it was, 60-some times.
And so you can’t argue a cap because there’s a separate cap for each violation. So just the things that this board did for us, and before you know it in the courtroom, you don’t have to repeat your argument again. You just point to it. Sometimes you have the witness on the stand and they start getting a little squirrely, and you just point to that, and they don’t want to go back to that board.
And so you can exert control by just pointing to this in the room. “Remember we talked about the bathing? There it is.” And the jury looks and they see CCH Healthcare only bathed this woman 28 times in an entire year. It’s all right there.
Learn how attorneys can develop useful testimony and evidence in Cross Examination at Depositions.
Schenk:
Amazing. Amazing. Gentlemen thank you so very much for coming on the show and sharing your knowledge with us
DiCello:
Thank you.
Herman:
Thank you
Schenk:
Folks, I hope you found this episode entertaining, educational. If you did, please let me know. Be sure to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from. If you’re watching this on YouTube, hit the notification bell or something. Leave a comment. That actually helps drive the algorithm.
And, ’cause I know that I think I watched an, a, a reel or something with a squirrel that had a botfly, which is really strange. I don’t know why it came up, and then all of a sudden YouTube thought that’s the only thing I ever wanted to see, which is gross. If you like this video, then perhaps you’ll see my face a thousand more times, just like I did with squirrels with botflies.
It’s so strange that there’s that many videos with that subject, that when I watched one, the million other ones came up. Anyway, if all goes according to plan, when this episode publishes, it’ll be September 14th of 2026, which is the day after World Sepsis Day. So for a lot of my clients that was the clinical condition that caused their injury or their death is sepsis, which is the body’s reaction to infection.
So the more we understand about sepsis, I think, as a society, the better. New episodes of the Justice for Residents podcast come out every single Monday, and with that, folks, we’ll see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to the Justice for Residents podcast. Nothing said on this podcast, either by the host or the guest, should be construed as legal or medical advice, nor is intended to create an attorney-client relationship between the listener and either the host or any guest. New episodes are published every Monday and are available on all your favorite podcast apps, as well as on YouTube and our website, justiceforresidents.com.
Again, that’s justiceforresidents.com. The Justice for Residents podcast is hosted by Rob Schenk, a trial lawyer representing victims of nursing home abuse and neglect throughout the state of Georgia. We’ll see you next Monday.